So I took out the usernames and like ratio to prevent doxing. But to show as evidence, this is the thread it happened in. https://old.reddit.com/r/antiwork/comments/wgxip9/so_its_presumptuous_to_assume_i_will_be_paid_for/
NOTE: I'm posting this so those wondering why this sub even exist, so they can learn.
Basically this is the type of mindset that honestly needs to go. The TLDR and the biggest problem on this is when someone questions the authority of someone, questions their knowledge, or flat out calls them out. Then they are treated as sub human. That if you don't kiss ass, then you are are worthless. And even then you need to kiss ass and say thank you to getting less than what you should.
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Now, what happen was a recruiter saying it isn't OK for us workers to ask them during the start how much a job pays. Someone mentions, it's an interview and they replied back with this and a number of others saying a yes “but” statement. Like in this case they said
I guess the inverse would be considering it an interrogation
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I replied to them mentioning an interview by just the definition of it is an interrogation. Then I tried to be a little bit more detail on why people ask for basics like pay towards the start.
What I get back is that I'm somehow ordering them to do something (which IDK how). Then towards the end they they were saying my last statement of why would something so basic to hidden but to screw us. They get PO about that, BUT NEVER EXPLAIN WHY THIS WOULD BE HIDDEN.
Note this. They never explain why such a thing can and should be hidden.
Then they try to gas light it as I'm not treating them as human. The only time I ever seen someone give this argument to something like that is when it threatens their bottom dollar on their own job.
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At this point I thought they were still interested in an answer to their wondering why people would want to ask about pay towards the start, so I gave a detailed answer. Part of it I even pointed out that they are obviously not sure about their experience because why else ask. I was thinking this would basically cause them to remember they are there to learn.
It was long, but in short seconds after spending the time to reply in this detail they replied with they aren't going to read it.
But note how this is normal in normal company culture. Some manager or whatever ask about a problem or something. If you explain they are the problem in some way, they freak out. Then they start belittling you about how they don't care about you as a person, or they try to make your job out to be far less than what it is.
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As you can see, I mentioned I was trying to educate them, and my hope was to stop these stupid practices.
Note how they came back and tried to gas light me in saying I'm purely the problem, they tried to insult me about what they assume to be my station in life, and then they try to go off again about me being the problem.
Note how they never explained how I ordered them to do anything even when I flat out asked them. This telling me they most likely were gas lighting on that.
Oh and the customer comment. Note how this is highly freaking similar to the comment managers tell teens something about “this won't hold up in the real world”, or managers tell adults “if you did this with another manager you would be fired”. As I pointed out with the follow up, luckily here they aren't my customer or my boss. So I can be completely honest so there is no mistaken my words.
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Obviously the conversation ended here. But, I'm still wondering how and where did I order them to do anything.
Anyways, as I mention toward the start, much of it comes down to when someone questions the authority of someone and pokes holes in any corporate BS, then they are made out to be the bad person. That they are gas lighted about virtually anything to shut you up. And in this case, if you were under them you would obviously be walked out the door by then, and as the saying goes. “Being 100% Right, And 100% Fired”
My hope in bringing this up as an example is to kill this mentality. Like the chances are low, but even if 1 boss sees it and learns from it. This it is worth it IMO.
- If you ask questions, be OK with getting answers. Even more if they are raw answers.
- If someone pokes holes in your authority, then don't gas light them or ding them. Evaluate the holes.
- If you can't answer for something basic like why would you hide pay at the start. Then don't get PO at them. It might be better and easier to just change what is wrong.
Side note: if someone finds out how I ordered them to do anything. Then let me know.